improved and selling 500 bucks in six months. david: mike on facebook. he kept it simple. you have got to be kidding. that has got to be it. liz: 5:00, fbi press conference. we'll take it right here. melissa: breaking news right now. the fbi is holding a press conference with the latest information. we are going to take you to it live the second it starts. we've been told that we're going to get a video related to the bombing. we are showing that video in the bottom of your screen so you know you won't miss a minute of it. let's listen. in looks like it is starting right now. >> we will have some photos available for you today and also we will be posting some video at www.fbi.gov. we hope to be back shortly in the next five to ten minutes. thank you very much. melissa: okay. so as you saw, they said they will be giving us that video we were talking about

in a couple minutes and we'll take the press conference live as soon as it starts but it will be another five or ten minutes. in the meantime we want to tell you "who made money today". investors still shorting apple. the stock plunged again to close at $392. this is the first time apple shares have closed below 400 since december of 2011. also losing money today, just about anybody who owns stocks! a rough day on wall street. the dow took another dive falling more than 81 points. all three major indices closed in the red but one company is getting money today. that is embattled retailer jcpenney. they have been in desperate need of cash lately. rumors they might be getting it in the form after $500 million loan from wells fargo. we'll keep an eye on that because even when they say it's not it is always about money. all right, tech trinity, google, ibm and microsoft reported earnings. latest from the breaking news desk.

dennis, what can you tell us. >> google and microsoft are up and ibm is down because of wall street expectations. google killed the earnings estimates. they came in at 11.58% share. wall street was expecting only 10.66 on google. revenue though a slight miss. just a touch below $14 billion in the quarter. wall street wanted 14.09 billion. the stock is up anyway. cost per click, that is an important metric for a search ad company fell 4% very sus a year ago. it is now fallen six quarters in a road because more ads are moving from your laptop screen on to mobile and mobile is cheaper. total click-through, that is the number of paid clicks, that is only way google makes money on ads, it grew 20%. that is slower than the 24% growth in the quarter before. now to microsoft, earnings per share, wall street wanted 68 cents. microsoft came in below at 65 cents. revenue came it at 18.83 billion. wall street wanted 20.5

billion but windows sales up 63% compared with a year ago. that is at a time we thought windows 8 is just sucking wind. wall street might like that. the stock was up at least last time i checked. chief financial officer leave microsoft at the end of the year. xbox, 46 million members online. that is paid membership for online for xbox sup 18% from a year ago ibm the stock is down three, 4% after-hours. it is up 7% in three months that shows how big of a plunge it is. $23.4 billion in revenues. wall street expected 24.62. that is slight miss. $3 in earnings per share. wall street expected 3.05. that is why the stock is down. chief financial officer said q2 operating earnings we're in right now growth will be similar to that of the first meaning basically flat i guess. ibm reiterates full year operatings earnings 15 to $16 a share. services backlog of ibm at

$141 billion, up 1% from a year ago. that will do for such a huge, huge base number. back to you you, melissa. melissa: good stuff, dennis, stay where we are. we want to talk bout more tech and apple as we said it closed at $390. that is the lowest since december 20th of 2011. the company reports earnings next tuesday. investors are dumping the stock on rumors that it will come in worse than expected. here's a stat for you. when apple was at the all-time high in september of 2012, it accounted for 5% of the s&p 500. today it is down almost half of that just about 2.8% of the index. let's bring in todd hazelton ton. welcome back to the show. let's talk apple first. what do you think about the dive in apple? >> you know i'm not surprised to see it because the problem with apple it has been way too quiet recently. we need to see innovation and need to see products in the market. htc and samsung releasing their major flagships now.

samsung came out yesterday. seven major carriers in the united states. that is huge. galaxy s4 will sell like gangbusters. galaxy line has always been great. what will happen he will do? will it make an incremental upgrade with the apple iphone 5 s or the ipad? we need a big change. itv or i watch, we want to see something big. melissa: we talked about apple missing earnings because they were always the king of sandbagging, managing expectations. >> we saw it last quarter. melissa: so is that a real sign of the decline in the company, that they can't even stick to that strategy? >> yeah i do think so but tim cook did say i would be more in line and give more accurate estimate in the future so that doesn't happen as often as it does or at least last quarter. so i think, really we need to see more products and see what they're doing. apple needs to be less secretive than they have in the past because it is not proving to be a winning situation right now. melissa: endid is in, i mean you have followed this so closely for so long.

does it feel to you like apple has lost its luster? do you think a stock that retreated 4% from the all-time high, that it is an opportunity? -- 43%. >> at some point apple will be a raging buy. let's face it. almost wall street gotten this stock utterly wrong. we got to the point where we felt they could do no wrong. the stock went up hugely after the death of steve jobs. you wonder how could the company be worth as much as it was when it lost someone so great? apple has two major problems. first simply the cruelty of product cycles. i a iphone 4, i didn't get the 4s. i was about to go to the 5 but i will wait until the 5s. it will freeze purchases. apple, 30% of the stock was love. they have fallen out of love. once something starts to fall like that it becomes very difficult to stop it and turn it around. melissa: todd, before we go

what do you think of the other earnings we heard before you? in both cases we're talking about companies where the revenue comes in lighter than expected. that is really the theme of the season. it is hitting tech as well. >> right. i think google is one to watch here. because, i was actually just listening to the earnings call right before the show here. they're saying incremental upgrade are not the way to go which is what apis doing and google can win. they're launching fiber gigabyte segment in the market. google glass. they're doing industry changing things publicly. people see this. i think that is a company to watch. melissa: okay. todd, dennis, you glis are great. >> thanks. melissa: the banking sector has become the least trusted industry in the u.s. these are the people we give our money to. this is not good especially when the same study shows that people being able to trust their bank is more important to them than any other industry. it is very telling sign of the times. here with all the details

plus the most and least trusted banks in the country is the coauthor of the study, former treasury department senior advisor to president obama. i just, for any of our audience that doesn't have the background it is not like you're some consultant coming to this and writing a paper. you were inside the treasury during the disaster, during the debacle, working hand in hand with the banks and whether you have an adversarial relationship coming out trying to clean things up there was also a partnership during the crisis to keep it all flowing. so you really were sitting there looking at this from the inside out. what was your takeaway? people don't trust their banks? >> they really don't. i think banks have underestimated how deep the breach of trust was coming out of the financial crisis. and what is happening now, we're seeing is that really different drivers of trust than there had been in the past. i think banks have expected. it is no longer about honesty or even the notion of fairness. it is about being helpful. are you helping --. melissa: that's what you mean by trust? not necessarily i trust you, that you're not going to steal my money when i come

back. my bank account will be empty. i trust you to make my life better, make my mortgage better, make my business, is that what you mean? >> that's what research told us. consumers in order to be trusted their banks to be trusted they want to feel like they're helped by their banks. they're not feeling that way. you're seeing it reflected in research. melissa: how can they fix that? >> well it is a number of things. when you think about what helpfulness means, it is deeper level of engagement most banks have. it is active support of your customers. do you send notices to remind to pay their credit cards? do you send them notices that they have a low balance in their checking accounts won't hit overdraft fees? are you suggesting products that might be cheaper for them and more helpful down the road. melissa: are they? that is not necessarily their responsibility. the bank's responsibility is to make money for the shareholders. what is the truth? what are they really doing? >> but they're not doing that. that is the point. consumers feel that. they're saying what happens in the past, maybe that wasn't your responsibility.

consumers are saying in order for me to trust you, that is the level of support i'm expecting from my bank. melissa: banks could make money off that by virtue of keeping their customers. by getting them to get involved in more products if they feel like they trust them to not take advantage of them, they would be more likely to park more things with a certain bank, right? >> absolutely and that is the key here. there is a really strong business case for trust and it is around cross-selling, selling multiple products to one customer. that is what every bank wants to do. wells fargo does it very well. they're ranged high on the trust ladder. conversely, bank of america and citigroup are low on the trust ladder. you see that correlation. melissa: what does wells do i feel like i will get you involved in more products because it will help you, not make me more money? is it the way they say it? the fees are trulily lower? people inside the branch are nicer? how do they do it? >> i think it is a combination of those things.

also tasks come at institution level. management has to send the word down to salespeople, this is how we treat our customers. it is not as much about short term fee income that you can get. melissa: as a consumer how does this benefit me? what can i do? are the banks trying to gain my trust and earn more income from me? how do i take advantage as a consumer? >> problem for consumers we will tell you they are unhappy with the banking relationship and don't switch because it is too much trouble and say nobody is any better, why should i bother changing. what we're trying to do is show people there are banks doing better than other banks. some regional banks are performing better on trust and get people to take more responsibility for their financial lives. imagine if you didn't trust your doctor. melissa: right. >> never went to the doctor and didn't take care of your health, you need to take care of your financial health. people aren't doing that to the extent they should. melissa: is wells fargo actually doing better but the perception they're more trusted? >> i think probably some of both. i think there are things that they are doing better.

i think they built a strong perception around it which helps them as well. you see results coming out in the business. melissa: community banks. they got a big boost. smaller is better. are they treating customers better? >> not in all cases. you need to be careful as consumer. some regional banks try to pried themselves on helpfulness. this drives trust. this is not what they see across all sectors. other sectors trust is driven by things like good value. melissa: this is lot of work. what are you doing with the study? did you present it to the banks tell them what you want to do? >> we had a launch event for better banking project. yeah we're now pushing research out into banks. melissa: susan, thanks for coming on. i hope you come back. great stuff. >> great to be here. melissa: if you're still getting over paying your tax this is week, listen up. we'll talk about you who you might be able to catch a break in the future with an alternative mmximum tax. hmmm, i like the idea of that. you can only pay the

government a certain amount and not a penny more, dammit. but what is the threshold? we are playing music. are we doing a segment? let's bring in john cochran, professor at university of chicago boothe school of business. he wrote a editorial of this we have peter morici. he is one of our favorite economists of course. john, explain this concept to me. this is your idea. what's the idea behind this? that after a certain point it is harming the economy to pay too much tax? >> yeah. we all know that. the other point is that we have a big fragmented tax system. so i want to add up not just federal income taxes but there is federal, state income taxes, local income taxes, property taxes, estate taxes real estate transer it taxes, sales taxes. taxes you pay for your employees. when you add it up you're likely paying more than you think. the alternative minimum tax to make sure people don't end up paying nothing, we need an alternative maximum

so make sure in the end we need to keep some of your income. melissa: that would make logical sense. peter, let me ask you. what is the maximum? at what point do you start doing harm to the economy? i think it is like 20%. but i think i'm a little low versus everyone else. >> well, sure think there. small businesses in new york city that mom-and-pop luncheonest on second avenue, they're paying marginal rates between the federal and state and payroll tax just there of over 50%. what is their incentive to put more capital at risk and expand and hire more people? it is not very good. but you know i want to go a step further. i'm encouraged by my colleague. at least with the income tax, let's not only have a maximum but let's have a minimum. if you need an average say 12% to cover the income tax, then let say maximum is 18 and minimum is 6. everybody has to fork over 6% income. everybody has skin in the game. not tended to vote for more government because they're

not paying anything. melissa: i like that idea. john, how would you calculate this? it always drives me crazy when people talk about the federal tax rate in isolation because we're paying tax wherever we go. do would you be able to deduct? there is state, local, property. there is sales tax. everywhere i turn i'm paying some sort of a tax. would you keep track of all that? how does this work? >> yeah. now, once we have this in place i think there's an app for that. all of sudden we have a mark the place, right? you would happily shell out ten bucks for an ipad happ that would keep track of all this stuff for you. i don't think the accounting is hard. corporate taxes are paid by people. they simply report on your 1099 dividends, we paid this much tax in your name. that counts against your alternative maximum. 20, 0%, i got to break it to you, our government is spending close to half of income which means that the average tax rate is close to half already. if we just can't pay 20 to

30% we better cut spending. that is sort of a canary in the coal mine to let us know how bad things have gotten. melissa: peter, strikes me no one in washington would be in favor of this. they would not give up any of my hard-earned dollars they're you can ising out of my wallet and paycheck and everywhere else. the truth of the matter it may not cost them that much revenue if you did a maximum, right? what do you think? >> i think it will cost them some revenue if you do a maximum because they will have to give money back. the real problem half of the folks in the country not paying any income tax at all that. is outrageous. they're encouraged to vote for more government programs because they have no skin in the game. the only way this is going to work if you not only have a maximum but you also have to say everybody pays something. and it is a meaningful amount. it doesn't have to be, crushing amount but everybody should feel like they're contributing to the up keep of the church so to speak. if you did that, than i think you mate i can work. it wouldn't be that hard to

have an app that adds all this up. another cool thing to do is, you know, this is page one of tax reform. how about this one. instead of filing date being april 15th, why don't we make it october 5th teenlt, nice and close to elections? right now it is as far away from elections as you can get. don't you think that might change the way guys behave? melissa: peter, you thought put a lot of thought into this. you have a anger and energy and good thoughts reforming our tax code. john, do you think any of this would fly? what about his minimum tax idea? that is not a bad idea but i don't know that would fly. >> there i disagree a little bit. poor people pay sales taxes -- he mentioned marginal taxes. the big problem in this country that poor people who get a lot of government programs, the minute they go get a job, they may earn $50,000 a year and lose $60,000 worth of government benefits. so in that sense they face very big disincentives to work. those are marginal taxes like we face. my all tern maximum can't

fix that. that is problem for another day they have the same disincentives to work as richer people do. we have to fix that too. melissa: john, we have to go, a wonderful op-ed. what has the response been like? has it been mixed or you get a lot of cheers or what happens? >> my buddies cheer and liberals call me a moron just as usual. melissa: you guys are fantastic. thanks for coming on. so it is our money question of the day, should the u.s. have an alternative maximum tax? pretty much everyone that responded said no. but we want to hear from more of you. you can like us at facebook.com/melissafrancisfox or follow me on twitter @melissaafrancis. okay, you can see on the bottom of the screen we're still waiting for that fbi presser to start. i don't want you to think we forgot you about it. that's why we're not taking breaks here. we want to make sure you don't miss it. we'll keep entertaining you here while waiting for the press conference to start. we hear there will be video and we'll get new

information so you see at the bottom of the screen..3 you will not miss a minute. now for today's fuel gauge report where we break down the biggest headlines affecting the energy industry and tear impact on the economy. federal investigators and officials looking for a cause of a flash fire in exxonmobil refinery in beaumont, texas yesterday. four people were critically injured. a company's spokes man said the production at the refinery will not be affected. >> royal dutch/shell leading the way for natural gas. in an evident to promote usage, they're using natural gas to power its own drilling rigs, ships and heavy trucks. shell hopes the others will make the same transition. the move helps buffer against uncertainties in the market. a new report shows clean energy investment worldwide has fallen 22% in the first quarter. huh. compared to the same time last year. that is the lowest level in four years. one of the most staggering facts investment in

renewable and energy efficiencies and energy smart technologies plunged 54% in the u.s.. the fbi press conference, is it starting right now? no. let's go up to the next script. the market has been gyrating for the past week from huge highs to record lows. gold is tanking, apple is crashing. you're in the right place. could you be making the biggest mistakes with your money. we'll let you in on the secret what they are so you don't make them. now i'm hearing that it is starting. we don't want you to miss it. let's listen in. >> good afternoon, my name is richard deslauriers. i'm the special agent in charge of the fbi boston division. since monday's bombing the fbi and our law enforcement partners have been working around the clock and fully committed to investigate this matter to bring those responsible to justice. our collective law enforcement team has pursued thousands of leads and tips. as i said two days ago we're working methodically and

with a sense of urgency to identify those responsible for the bombings. within the last day or so through that careful process we initially developed a single person of interest. not knowing that the individual was acting alone or in concert with others we obviously worked with extreme purpose to make that determination. the entire force of the federal government, the fbi in boston, around the world, as well as our partners in the boston police, atf, massachusetts state police, and more than 30 agencies of the boston joint terrorism task force have set about to insure all responsible for the bombings will be brought to justice. more importantly it was done to insure that the future safety of the city of boston, the commonwealth of massachusetts, and the country. indeed, through that process the fbi developed a second suspect. today we are enlisting the public's help to identify two suspects. after very detailed analysis of photo, video anddother evidence we are releasing

photos of these two suspects. they are identified as suspect one and suspect two. they appear to be associated. suspect one is wearing a dark hat. suspect two is wearing a white hat. suspect two society down a backpack at the site of the second explosion just in front of for rum restaurant. we strongly encourage those who were at the forum restaurant who have not contacted us yet to do so. as you can see, from one of the, from one of the images, suspects one and two appear to be walking together through the marathon crowd on boylston street in direction of the finish line. that image was captured as they watch walked on boylston in the vicinity of intersection with gloucester street of the as you see the quality of the photos is quite good. we will continue to work on developing additional images to improve their identification value. further, on fbi.gov we have photos of the suspects.

the photos and videos are posted for the public and media to use, review and publicize. for clarity, these images should be the only ones, i emphasize the only ones that the public should view to assist us. other photos should not be deemed credible and they necessarily divert the public's attention in the wrong direction and create undue work for vital law enforcement resources. for more than 100 years the fbi relied on the public to be its eyes and ears. with the media's help in an instant these images will be delivered directly into the hands of millions around the world. we know the public will play a critical role in identifying and locating these individuals. somebody out there knows these individuals as friends, neighbors, coworkers or family members of the suspects. though it may be difficult the nation is counting on those with information to come forward and provide it to us. no bit of information, no

matter how small or seemingly incons sqepgs is two small for us to see. each piece moves us forward towards justice. it is extremely important to contact us with any information regarding the identities of suspect one, suspect 2 and their location. we consider them to be armed and extremely dangerous. no one should approach them. no one should attempt to apprehend them except law enforcement. let me reiterate that caution. do not take any action on your own. if you see these men, contact law enforcement. if you know anything about the bombings or the men pictured here, please call the telephone listed on the photo a race. that is the 1-800-call fbi. that is 1-800-225-5324. all calls will be kept confident at. we established a website for tips that directly relates to the bombing. please contact us at bosto

bostonmarathontips.fbi.gov. that website is bostonmaratho bostonmarathontips.fbi.gov. the photos can be viewed on our web site, fbi.gov. it is important to emphasize the images are indelible a the horror will remain with us forever. this underscores our ability to investigate this crime judiciously to bring those responsible for justice. the victims and survivors deserve nothing more. nothing less, excuse me. as to monday's victims the fbi is committed to insuring the victims receive the rights they are entitled to and assistance they need to cope with the crime. treating victims with respect and providing them with assist stance and benefits and will better our cases. our resources include an office of victim assistance at fbi headquarters and victim specialists nationwide. these highly trained

professionals can assist victims and coordinate with other agencies to provide victims with the support, information, resources necessary to effectively meet their needs. our victim specialist team needs to work around the clock to bring assistance to the victims of this heinous act. identifying and locating those responsible is now our highest priority. no other details of the investigation will be released at this time because this is our focus now. it continues to be an ongoing, active investigation. review these photographs and contact us at 1-800-call fbi or www.boston marathon tips tips,.fbi.gov immediately. thank you very much. >> wondering if should there be arrests what are the charges do you anticipate? >> i wouldn't want to comment on that karen, right now. i would allow the u.s. attorney ortiz to comment on that aspect. >> monday morning we got

photographs. folks. >> next question, please. >> are both suspects seen planting these devices at finish line of the boston marathon? what time? only one observed planting what we believe to be the device is suspect number two with the white cap. >> what time did they put the devices down? >> i don't have the precise time in front of me. it was shortly before the bomb blast went off. within minutes. >> mr. deslauriers are these the sole people of interest of the fbi at this point of the investigation? >> at this time these are the people of interest to the fbi. >> do you have any information on what they did after the explosions? any indication they were around watching or do you have any video of them walking away? >> suspect number two, with the white cap on, proceeded west on boylston street. and that's all we know right now.

>> pictures today in newspapers all over the country including "new york post" identified two men that potential suspects. i'm wondering what it does to your investigation when things like this get out and -- >> i think i addressed that. thank you and i think i addressed that question in my statement saying only photos officially should be relied upon in this investigation are those you see before you today. >> are they armed and dangerous and you stand by earlier statement there is no additional danger to the public? >> i do stand by that information right now. there is no additional imminent danger we're aware of right now. >> expose your lies. >> again the photos are available at fbi.gov. melissa: that was a lot of information we just got from the fbi there. let's break it all down with me, bo dietl, former nypd detective with his reaction. wow, we got two good looks at people that they are identifying as suspect one

and two. what did you think of all that? >> well you know, what comes to mind, when i picked up the "new york post" this morning, they had two different people but one looks very similar. i don't know how the "new york post" got it. and i was looking at "new york post." they identified them as people wanted in the bombing. now i have to side with obviously the joint terrorism task force saying these are the once. melissa: these are the pictures. >> these are the ones, one with the white hat is sign setting something down leaving and proximity of the bomb was there. again the public now, some people say, oh, why is the fbi -- i want the fbi to put these pictures out. someone will know them. someone has to call the fbi to say, that is tommy jones and so-and-so. melissa: we, the post pictures were not necessarily the same guys. these guys, the fbi addressed that question just now when they were speaking. they were asked by other photos that appeared in

papers. they said you can only rely on photos at fbi.gov. we saw a very clear profile of at least one suspect, the suspect number two wearing the white hat with the backpack. you could see him very clearly had profile. they said they saw him setting down a device, with a backpack. suspect number one wearing a dark hat. they confirmed they didn't see sus spuk them per one with the dark hat set anything down but they saw suspect number two walk away and down boylston street. in your mind having done this and watched this so many times is this a lot of information? >> it is certainly a lot of information. you have to understand, simultaneously as this is developing, the forensic evidence they're developing now that possibly from where some of this stuff was purchased, again the fbi laboratory at quantico has evidence of every product of all these batteries and all that and they will be doing

a simultaneous frons sick investigation to match these guys up. upon identifying them this will be something very important when you put them in there and questioning them. melissa: right. >> and obviously finding their true identity, who they are, and then you can, it is like a big puzzle and you put all the different pieces. you have witness, eyewitnesses, say, i remember that guy. i remember that guy walking around acting suspicious. you have all this social media that's out there. people are twittering and myspace and all that kind of stuff and all this information is being taken. also the fact with the cellular towers, what was going on, the pings were going. i think in the cellular tower they're able to do a certain amount of proximities of about a mile. every cellular phone that went off at that time, they're able to get that ping and find out where that cellular phone, probably, one of these bombers if these are in fact the bombers, used their cellular phones to contact someone else. that will be on record. melissa: we've been looking, since this happened, at the

fragments that they found, the pieces of the pressure cooker. >> yeah. melissa: the pieces of the zipper to match now, as you said, they know -- >> the bag. >> where each things could have come from. where they might have been sold to go into where these things might have been sold with now a photo. >> there was talk about the utilization of a batter out of one of these remote electronic cars or toys. and that's something they used and it is just funny when you see something like that why didn't they buy their own baltry? maybe there was certain teaching how to make a bomb with a certain group that said use this type of battery out of a remote car thing. then you will start to understand maybe where it came from. also where you can say, well, was it was on the internet about utilizing this kind of a battery. then you have the pressure cookers. then you have also, they have a circuit board there. just maybe there's a fingerprint that can be picked off one of those circuit board off the battery, off even the shrapnel that was blown up.

maybe they're putting nails in there and ball bearings and maybe we'll get a fingerprint. melissa: somewhere along we get a fingerprint. so the fbi is asaying call, 1 eight00-call-fbi. if they look familiar not to take action. when they put out the photos and put out video do they now get overwhelmed? how do they manage that? some people said when you do this you bring the investigation to a grinding halt because you get overwhelmed with -- >> i will guaranty you have over a thousand fbi joint terrorist tax fofs ard -- task force, i think they prepared themselves for the number they put up. i guaranty they put in database where calls will be slipped all over the country, all field offices. you have 5,000, at least people monitoring this right now because that one phone call will say, wait a second, that is my cousin and he has been missing in his brain a little bit.

he has been of having problems. that is my cousin. i know what he looks like. that's what we need and we want to capture people involved with this terrorist act whether it be domestic or foreign. this is a terrorist act that no one should be afraid to use the word terrorists because that is exactly what it was. this was built, this bomb to maim and kill and take body count out. the game has changed, now, if this is really a terrorist invasion of us, the game has changed because after 9/11, we were worrying about what they call soft targets like this. penn station, train cars. we never ever had to worry about it. now all of sudden i'm afraid again of the copycats because look it, you can go online, figure out how to build these damn things and it scares the heck out of me that the copycats, the nuts that are out there, other than the al qaeda nuts, now are sighing that the kind of attraction this is and that's scary to me. melissa: bo, thanks so much. we'll squeeze in a quick break. don't go away. we have a lot more after

this. if you've got it, you know how hard it can be to breathe and man, you know how that feels. copd includes emphysema and chronic bronchitis. spiriva is a once-daily inhaled copd maintenance treatment that helps open my obstructed airways for a full 24 hours. you know, spiriva helps me breathe easier. spiriva handihaler tiotropium bromide inhalation powder does not replace fast-acting inhalers for sudden symptoms.

tell your doctor if you have kidney problems, glaucoma, trouble urinating, or an enlarged prostate. these may worsen with spiriva. discuss all medicines you take, even eye drops. stop taking spiriva and seek immediate medical help if your breathing suddenly worsens, your throat or tongue swells, you get hives, vision changes eye pain, or problems passing urine. other side effects include dry mouth and constipation. nothing can reverse copd. spiriva helps me breathe better. does breathing with copd weigh you dow don't wait to ask your doctor about spiriva. at od, whatever business you're in, that's the business we're in. with premium service like one of the best on-time delivery records and a low claims ratio, we do whatever it takes to make your business our business. od. helping the world keep promises.

very logical thinker. (laughs) i'm telling you right now, the girl back at home would absolutely not have taken a zip line in the jungle. (screams) i'm really glad that girl stayed at home. vo: expedia helps 30 million travelers a month find what they're looking for. one traveler at a time. expedia. find yours.

melissa: big news from the joint task force investigating the boston bombing, we have seen still images and video of two people they're identifying as suspect one and suspect two. very clear images of both of these people. suspect two in the white house carrying a backpack and setting it down

on the ground and leaving it. i want to bring in dennis kneale who has been watching this from our breaking news desk. dennis, this is, these are good shots. a lot of clear information. are you with us? >> who knew, melissa, that video surveillance and just cameras stations everywhere could be so high resolution and in color and so good. as i watched it was rather riveting, i should i be optimistic as an american because they found these images and now they're airing them out or should we be pessimistic the fact they found the images and didn't find the guys themselves and they're asking for help mean their way behind? other thing i thought if you're a trader in the markets tomorrow, we had all the bad news happening and traders hate uncertainty and this guy with jutting jaw and white ball cap and neighbors and friends are looking at that and they know him and they will call the cops. if you're trader on wall street you think this reduces the uncertainty. you have a arrest of a

suspect in poison letters and you have this. melissa they didn't call this a person of interest. that is what law enforcement uses when they're not sure. they're clearly sure these guys are clearly suspects. they labeled them as such. let's remember something, in america today the typical american is on camera 16 times per day because of surveillance video and because of atms where you go to take cash out. so i will bet you that the fbi may have even more than they're showing us so far that makes them sure that these guys are suspects, not merely person of interests. melissa: dennis, those are all fantastic points and what you're saying is so true. you look at the angle of the camera we're looking at right now on the screen, and you can tell that is surveillance camera outside of a business. we now know those are everywhere. that would be my guess. looking at it what else could it possibly be. those are outside some places on the street, you're right. we have more than this. this is the probably the clearest image they have. they don't want to confuse

the public. they're putting out there way you see the two people the absolute best. the still source, resolution on that where you see still images we're going back to that, especially a profile, this is a lot of information for the public. you and i covered these kinds of things for years, in general, the pictures aren't this good. i mean i didn't know what to expect. i'm surprised at that picture in particular. i'm surprised, with the clarity of these images. >> just think about one thing the day of the bombings in boston i think i read a blush in the "wall street journal" on the front ppge that said 25 bombs had gone off in short period in iraq that killed 61 people. look how much national attention and how much effort gone on one single bombing that killed three people. i think we keep a tighter grip on that. frankly i don't want to be pollyanna but gives me a little bit of hope. you do something wrong in america we'll come after you and get you and i hope the fbi gets these guys. if not these suspects gets

whoever did this. melissa: i want to bring david asman in as well. what do you think of these images of the clarity of them. >> well, i just went to the fbi website and i disagree a little bit with the fbi guy saying they're superclear. they're not superclear. but again i don't know these guys. there is according to the fbi there are people, they seem pretty sure that there are people in the boston area who know these people which indicates they had other support groups either individuals who doesn't realize they were helping somebody who might have set off these bombs or not but they're pretty sure. i agree with dennis's sentiment 100%. i just can't wait until they get these guys. i do have to say one thing. it seems like there was confusion. i'm sensing some kind of a turf battles. there was so much misinformation that came out yesterday from law enforcement about whether they had the suspects. whether they didn't. whether they were incarcerated. it seems to me there is a little bit of a problem in turn of chain of command.

now it looks like the fbi as bo dietl said earlier on the though that the fbi has completely come in and taken over that may be a thing. sometimes the local police want to push these things forward. apparently the local police were leaking some erroneous information that came out yesterday. seems now finally there is strong chain of command in terms of who is investigating this. melissa: we did see other pictures and publications now that you look at them it may not be these guys. there always the case anytime in a big crime like this and big investigation we have our own sources and police. >> that's true. there is always, usually, i shouldn't say always but usually when these things proceed forward in the initial stages we have these turf battles. apparently there may have been, but i'm speculating here, speculating what happened yesterday when there were so many bad bits of information that came out. sometimes by more than one source but seemed sources coming out with the information proved wrong

about suspects who were captured, who were in custody, that came from local sources. now the fbi is leading the investigation. it is fbi came out first. you didn't see, there was some kind of a confusion in that press conference room. some idiot was asking dumb questions in the back and i think that's why they ended it early. but the point is the fbi was only one answering questions. and again that may be a thing. melissa: okay, dennis, david, both of you. thank you so much. don't go away. we've got more "money" coming up.

melissa: there is a huge fight brewing in the hallowed halls of academia putting scholars from the university of massachusetts pitted against harvard? oh, no. our country's dent to gdp ratio is above 100%. that is not good no matter how you slice it. a group from the university of massachusetts says it is actually the opposite. don't know how that is possible. with me now is one of the professors that debunked it all. a former umass, amherst. we also have from, umass amherst and steve moore a member of "the wall street journal" editorial board.

professor, let me start with you. so you take apart this study that carmen reinhardt and ken rogoff put together. first error you found was a doozy. it was mathematical. they made mistakes in their xcel spreadsheet. >> they did. i wasn't to say it wasn't just me. myself with my coauthors thomas herndon, who is a graduate student and my colleague, michael ash. that was the first problem. the problem was they simply calculated wrong off their spreadsheet scheidt. melissa: okay, so their response to that was, has been, we do, we do not believe that this regretable slip affects in any significant way the central message of the paper or in our subsequent work. what do you think about that? >> uh-huh. well, there were really three errors. that was one. three types of errors. the net effect of all three errors was to convey very

different picture than the one that's in their paper. the picture in their paper is, that once an economy, the u.s. or any other economy has a public debt level in excess of 90% of gdp, you're facing an abyss. that the economic growth is going to go down very, very sharply. the result that we produced by working with their own data, but just doing it correctly, is very different. that you see on average, a moderate reduction in gdp growth past that 90% threshold. and you also see a very wide range around that average. such that, you really can't tell this story, that once you go past that threshold, we're going to see anything like a sharp gdp growth decline. melissa: steve, what do you think? do you buy that? go ahead. >> i think these professors have sound some pretty important flaws in the, what

i call the study, r&r study, row governor and reinhardt and something that has to be addressed. my point here for people looking at this, how does data affect the markets, how does data affect the economy, i never believed, somehow you hit 90% you go off a cliff, i never believed that to be true. what you believe, the evidence is pretty strong about this, as your debt aaccumulates of a nation the negative effect of that become more pronounced. whether it is at 80% or 90%, or 100%, quite frankly, melissa we don't know. but we know a debt burden as large as the europe and united states has is getting pretty dangerous. melissa: what do you think about that? because professor reinhardt and rogoff, they have acknowledged the things that you've said. they don't feel like it changes the general thesis. there is certain amount of logic to that as a country is overwhelmed with debt it impacts growth. do you not think that is true? >> well of course i think it

is true. look, the point is, i never said that when a country aaccumulates debt indefinitely under any and all circumstances that is a positive. that is not the point at all. what we have said is, number one, this is a research paper and we said, this major research paper is just wrong. so all the people, up concluding paul ryan and including george osborne in the u.k., chancellor of the u.k., have been citing this work over and over again. it's wrong. now what do i think about debt and gdp? i think when an economy is hit with a financeal crisis of the magnitude we got hit with and you fall into a severe recession, then the single best policy tool we have is government spending to create jobs and to bring the economy back. that is in a recession. that is not the case in a, when the economy is growing. then the debt does not have

to increase. >> that's a really important point, melissa. and the truth is, arthur laffer and i and "the wall street journal" just about six months ago did a pretty extensive study that showed exactly the opposite. that in fact the countries that did the biggest fiscal stimulus in response to the great recession we lad in 2008 and 2009, that is the government's that spent and borrowed the most money had the weakest recoveries from. this kind of keynesian idea when you want to do when you get hit a financial crisis spend and borrow, we found the opposite was true. maybe you look at that one see if there any flaws in our study. because we found just the opposite. melissa: we have the to squeeze in a break. we appreciate both of you. i love these academic arguments because you're looking at at that rather than just having emotion what you feel would be right for the government to do, we're looking at real numbers and solve the problem. so i really appreciate both of you coming on. i hope you can do it again. >> thanks, melissa. melissa: well-done. next on "money," 24 irs

workers are accused stealing a quarter of a million dollars from the irs. hello? liz macdonald has the story that you've got to hear. more "money" straight ahead are you still sleeping? just wanted to check and make sure that we were on schedule.

the first technology of its kind... moand dad, i have great news. is now providing answers families need. siemens. answers. given way to sleeping. tossing and turning have where sleepless nightsyiel, and lunesta eszopiclone can help you get there, like it has for so many people before. do not take lunesta if you are allergic to anything in it. when taking lunesta,

don't drive or operate machinery until you feel fully awake. walking, eating, driving or engaging in other activities while asleep without remembering it the next day have been reported. lunesta should not be taken together with alcohol. abnormal behaviors may include aggressiveness, agitation, hallucinations or confusion. in depressedatients, worsening of depression, including risk of suicide, may occur. alcohol may increase these risks. allergic reactions such as tongue or throat swelling occur rarely and may be fatal. side effects may include unpleasant taste, headache, dizziness and morning drowsiness. ask your doctor if lunesta is right for you. then find out how to get lunesta for as low as $15 at lunesta.c there's a land of restful sleep, we can help you go there, on the wings of lunesta.

>> here to wrap up this show with us. finally overcome a tax day. well your busy filing your taxes with the irs, some of its employees were just as busy stealing. twenty-four irs workers are being indicted for taking more than $250,000 since 2006. more than half accused of wrongfully collecting unemployment benefits, food stamps. this was your story. how did this happen? >> you know, we are all asked to pay our fair share. but they're taking their fair share. the thinking is that 13 of these individuals are being accused of lying to the government. they basically were out of a job when there were actually working at the irs. essentially, national implications because of the sequestration because of a government furloughs. government workers being laid off, getting government benefits , but then getting rehired in not telling the government that they have been rehired so they should not be getting the benefits. >> this is what makes my teeth

hurt and i don't understand. how could you be collecting unemployment and working at the irs. talk about the right hand and the left hand. i mean, how is that? >> have these folks and and thank god for the reporting on it because everyone has to know about this. one thing is shows, they always get a deal. 18 percent effective federal tax rate. closer than 40%. how many people pay 18% except for folks who either don't have a job or were the insiders at the top. it shows the flat tax which is more fair. >> catch workers doing things like this. melissa: you have any faith in that? melissa: the whole thing is